wow.. sorry, didn't mean for that whole paragraph to be in large font, my apologies.

And because it meets your definition doesn't make you correct either.

Interesting that you associate the phrase "culture of entitlement" with a particular race or group. Hmmm, not a closet racist are you?

That phrase is used in a great many contexts including the corporate. It describes the attitudes that a group develops that makes them believe that thay are entitled to certain things without having earned them through merit. This easily applies to workers, say school teachers for example, who believe they deserve a pay increased based solely upon tenure and quality or quatity evaluation of their performance should have no bearing at all.

But yet, you chose to associate the term with a race or races. hmmmm

MasonM: Again, read the thread, that "culture of entitlement" phrase was use during a part of the dialogue in which the African American community was being discussed. So, no... I didn't "associate" it with a race, it was being used as such. Moreover, I've spent the last 5 years of my life living and studying Dr. Martin Luther King's legacy. And I know for a fact that the African American community views that term as rascist. Come visit and I'll let you hear it for yourself. Yes, I agree that the term "culture of entitlement" could be used in a variety of differnt ways - but it wasn't... it was used in direct connection to the African American community. Stop twisting the facts.

OK, then show your work. You made the allegation that someone made a racist remark, prove it. Finish the sentence "It's racist because..."

Regardless of what racism means to you, it is a big, mean, ugly word and when you call someone racist you'd better be able to clearly and logically demonstrate why. If you have a definition of racism that only exists in the hothouse of your mind it doesn't give you the right to call everyone and everything racist just because your definition is so unique. I think the word "racist" has been so badly misused that it is losing its meaning, and soon it will have as much effect as crying wolf.

This fuzzy logic of "personal responsibility = racism" is what the real problem is. People feel they can make damning accusations of ______ism without any fear of repercussion of need to back it up because the word is so bloody vague in the first place. The consequences of being branded a racist are quite real, however.

Ok Geo, I did re-read the thread. While I still didn't see any strong racial remarks, only a socio-political one, I'll say that I can unerstand why you would choose to interpret it that way.

But, I was actually addressing your remark in THIS thread wherein you stated

the mere use of the phrase "culture of entitlement" is rascist.

which is twisting the facts (borrowed that phrase fom you). The phrase, out of context, is hardly racial.

Come visit and I'll let you hear it for yourself

I'm sorry, I wasn't aware that you had the strange notion that I lived in some strange land that had no blacks, chinese, mexicans,. or other minorities. Sorry to disappoint you about that but it's not the case. None of my friends or people I know carry on about these ideas that seem so important to you. They work for a living, raise their families, and basically go about the business of living their lives just like I and everyone else here does.

We associate with each other here, work together, play together, go drinking together, and our children all play together. The only time the subject of race even comes up in a conversation is usually as a remark to some silly nonesense we hear on the news or as part of a physical description of another person.

Frankly, I do not understand why some people need to turn everything into this sort racial battle. It just doesn't make much sense.

BTW, most of the folks around here, blacks included, are pretty conservative. May be why we all live together so well. Don't feel the need to create battles over a non-issue.

Mason: Since it's such a non issue for you then, I'll assume you'll make no further posts on the topic.

David,

I don't feel compelled to "show my work." If you can not understand why painting and entire segment of the population as one living in a "culture of entitlement" is racist, then perhaps you should consider more reading on the topic. Accusing an entire population of a sweeping generality is racist in and of itself. It refuses to treat the targeted individuals as such - individuals. That's as much of my "work" I'm going to "show". Again, if you think it's not racist - go pick out a few of your friends who are African American and ask them the question. Goodness.

I said nothing of personal responsibility being equivalent of racism, you're putting words in my mouth or making some connections in the comments that you should not make. Period. Stop distorting the text and assuming that your interpretation of comments written are my remarks.


Reply By: David St. Hubbins Posted: Friday, June 11, 2004

OK, then show your work. You made the allegation that someone made a racist remark, prove it. Finish the sentence "It's racist because..."

Regardless of what racism means to you, it is a big, mean, ugly word and when you call someone racist you'd better be able to clearly and logically demonstrate why. If you have a definition of racism that only exists in the hothouse of your mind it doesn't give you the right to call everyone and everything racist just because your definition is so unique. I think the word "racist" has been so badly misused that it is losing its meaning, and soon it will have as much effect as crying wolf.

This fuzzy logic of "personal responsibility = racism" is what the real problem is. People feel they can make damning accusations of ______ism without any fear of repercussion of need to back it up because the word is so bloody vague in the first place. The consequences of being branded a racist are quite real, however.

Excellent suggestion Geo!!!

What about assigning a population a generality? Can we still do that? Ever? Is it OK to say women tend to wear skirts, men tend to pee standing up, Indians tend to be Hindu, Mexicans tend to speak Spanish?

You just said "Accusing an entire population of a sweeping generality is racist in and of itself". Not only do I disagree with that statement, I believe it to be demonstrably false. What if the population we speak of is gender based or age based (ie women, children)? Is it still racist to say "Women tend to wear skirts" or "Kids like playing with toys"? Of course not. And neither is it sexist nor ageist. Is it racist to suggest Canadians tend to like hockey? Obviously not. OK, let's go one step further; would it be OK to say Americans of European descent tend to have lighter skin than those of African descent? It's just stating the obvious.

I say its OK to make generalizations, but not OK to make false allegations of racism. Even Yaweh agrees with me: "Thou shall not bear false witness against thy neighbour" makes his top ten, but I don't see "Thou shall not generalize" anywhere on the list.

Your intolerant, rascist, homophobic, classist, and arrogant remarks will not go un-checked I would ask anyone else reading this thread to answer this one. Does anyone else find that to be a condescending, insulting remark?

You betcha!

Same question to you PoetMom...did you read all of the involved threads, did you see anything wrong with the statements that were made that generated that statement from me? The statement was aimed at those who made remarks that could be easily classified the way that I did. If you're offended, the you must have a guilty complex... if you said nothing of that ilk, then you have no say in this - as the remark was aimed at those who made the offensive remarks.

David,

Your attempt to confuse or obfuscate the matter fails in my opinion. Someone made the statement that African Americans were living in a culture of entitlement. That's a racist statement period. If I chose to call someone out for that statement and you disagree with it, so be it. But stop trying to play this out to some logical end in your mind that attempts to dilute the offensive remarks.

Ask someone else if it's ok to say that women tend to wear skirts or if men pee standing up or even if kids enjoy playing with toys - they have no relevance when it comes to someone making a sweeping generalization of the African American community. I'm finished with this topic with you. Your simply trying to dilute the offensive remarks with obfuscation. And I won't be a part of it.



Reply By: David St. Hubbins Posted: Friday, June 11, 2004
What about assigning a population a generality? Can we still do that? Ever? Is it OK to say women tend to wear skirts, men tend to pee standing up, Indians tend to be Hindu, Mexicans tend to speak Spanish?

You just said "Accusing an entire population of a sweeping generality is racist in and of itself". Not only do I disagree with that statement, I believe it to be demonstrably false. What if the population we speak of is gender based or age based (ie women, children)? Is it still racist to say "Women tend to wear skirts" or "Kids like playing with toys"? Of course not. And neither is it sexist nor ageist. Is it racist to suggest Canadians tend to like hockey? Obviously not. OK, let's go one step further; would it be OK to say Americans of European descent tend to have lighter skin than those of African descent? It's just stating the obvious.

I say its OK to make generalizations, but not OK to make false allegations of racism. Even Yaweh agrees with me: "Thou shall not bear false witness against thy neighbour" makes his top ten, but I don't see "Thou shall not generalize" anywhere on the list.

I didn't confuse the issue, I clarified it by discovering exactly where you and I differ: "Accusing an entire population of a sweeping generality is racist in and of itself".
I think I gave a reasonably good example of why this is false, and it seems to be your basis for making an accusation of racism.
We can't have an open and honest dialogue about racism until people like you stop making false acusations of racism. Until then, the situation is only going to get worse.

David, how about going on the record here. Do you agree with the statement that another blogger made, that the African American community is "living in a culture of entitlrement"? Simple question, yes or not. Secondly, do you think that is a rascist statement to make. And I'd becareful with my response if I were you, cause you've already answer this question by saying I'm falsely accusing someone of making rascist remarks. It's not a false claim, he made the statement, and it's a racists statement period. How about putting your answer to the question on the line, stop hiding behind the secondary comments that have come about. Do you think African Americans are living in a culture of entitlement? Do you?

*cackle*

Geo, dude. You ever know that kid in school that always seemed to be pissing people off and getting kicked around? You know the one, the guy that for some reason couldn't laugh anything off and had to fixate on every bit on animosity, thereby inviting needless torrents of animostity? For instance, the Hall Monitor that always seemed to be pissed off and people delighted in it? That's the vibe I am getting here.

"I chose not to "get used to it" but challenge it"

What I have learned so far about you is that all I have to do is bruise your ego a bit and you begin diverting from the topic to point out the other person's debating style. You completely lose your focus. You come off as someone who has so little to say that he has to pick at the semantics of the other argument to distract a bit from the losing battle.

This thread is a golden example. Your best bet is to pick over the trashtalk and address the substance of the other person's argument. If you can... otherwise people are just gonna sit and bait you with trashtalk and laugh when you get all red in the face.